Wikipedia:Anuncios Archivo 2002

De Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre

Este es el archivo de los anuncios del año 2002
Para una versión más reciente (del año en curso) ver Wikipedia:Anuncios

El 23 de octubre, 2002, Wikipedia en Espanol fue convertido al software fase III.

9 de Febrero de 2002. Wikipedia en español supera en número de artículos útiles a todas las demás Wikipedias en lengua no-inglesa

Hoy nos hemos colocado a la cabeza de las Wikipedias no-inglesas, aunque seguidos muy de cerca por la Wikipedia alemana, sólo 30 páginas de diferencia.

Cifras

Nosotros: 1735 (Alemania:2248) (Polonia:1563) Total de páginas
Nosotros: 1316 (Alemania:1299) (Polonia:1081) Total de páginas "coma"
Nosotros: -130 (Alemania:-144) (Polonia:-79) Total de páginas metawikipedia
Nosotros: 1.186 (Alemania:1155) (Polonia:1002) Total de artículos útiles

Ya estamos de primeros.

7 de Febrero de 2002. Wikipedia en español supera la barrera imaginaria de los 1.000 primeros artículos

Hoy hemos superado la cifra de 1.000 artículos útiles. Las cifras son:
1.502 Total de páginas
1.131 Total de páginas "coma"
-113 Total de páginas metawikipedia
1.018 Total de artículos útiles

Sólo me queda felicitar a todos los que lo han hecho posible.

Nuestra primera felicitación:
From: "Larry Sanger" <lsanger@nupedia.com>
To: "Edgar Enyedy" <edgar@ya.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 9:25 PM
Subject:Spanish Wikipedia meets the challenge

Congratulations!

Larry

30 de Enero de 2002. Nuevas Estadísticas de Wikipedias Internacionales (recuentos de páginas "coma")

Cambios experimentados desde el 12 de enero.

• Alemán 1227 1269 +3%
• Polaco 815 997 +22%
• Español 609 869 +43%
• Neerlandés 374 423 +13%
• Esperanto 271 373 +38%
• Portugués 201 209 +4%
• Serbocroata 0 105 (comenzó hace una semana)
• Sueco 100 102 +2%
• Francés 60 88 +47%
• Catalán 57 59 +4%
• Noruego 3 33 +1000%
• Afrikaans 14 16 +14%
• Italiano 12 12
• Chino 7 8 +14%
• Euskara 7 7
• Ruso 7 7
• Japonés 2 2
• Húngaro 1 1
• Árabe 1 1

Total: 3768 - 4581 +22%

La situación en la parte superior de la lista sigue siendo la misma de estadísticas anteriores, siendo las tres Wikipedias más extensas las correspondientes a los idiomas alemán, polaco y español. La distancia entre estas tres se va acortando significativamente cada vez más.

Por otro lado, la distancia entre estas tres y el resto de wikipedias nacionales se va incrementando cada vez más.

El tamaño relativo de las tres primeras es: 1ra/2da=+27% y 2da/3ra=+15%. El siguiente tramo es mucho más grande: 3ra/4ta=+105%

Creo que la estadística nos apoya, lo estamos haciendo bien, con un 43 % de crecimiento en 2 semanas.

Lo que me preocupa es la relación del número de hablantes de una lengua determinada y el de contribuciones. Los hispanohablantes somos una cantidad considerable (ver mi comentario en la portada Wikipedia y los contenidos en español).

Felicidades a todos los involucrados en este + 43%

24 de Enero de 2002. Sobre un correo (otro) de Lars Aronsson

Texto original:

"Earlier, I wrote: > > Thanks for the information! I had a look at the Spanish Wikipedia, > > and found that some information about Peru (e.g. "Informacion > > general") was not on subpages, so I moved them where they should be > > (Cambios Recientes, January 14, signature LA2).

Just to clarify, I did not intend to make any point about using subpages or not. The problem I found was that the general information about Peru was in general information. I moved that to Peru/general information. It could have been moved to [[general information about Peru]] or general information (Peru) or whatever, but a page called just general information shouldn't be specific to Peru.

> For instance, Mexican people has started working on their country > pages. A really interesting approach, and decided not to use > sub-pages, wiki links instead. As sub-pages seems soon to be removed > from wiki software, it's a nonsense to follow those guidelines.

The transition to the new software for the non-English Wikipedias, and the transformation of information that it might require, is indeed an interesting topic that hasn't been mentioned a lot here. How are guidelines written and policies established for these Wikipedias? I think somebody has to mediate between Jimmy's and Larry's policies and the non-English users that don't care to read the English guidelines.

> We are not only "educating" this creature, but also "creating" it.

Indeed! It is like a sculptor who tries to find out which statue is hiding inside a certain block of marble, chipping away to uncover it."

Lars Aronsson

• Respuesta:

"Hi Lars,

I know you didn't intend to make it. The point is using subpages seemed to be the easy-to-follow way of gathering pages around a topic. I mean, when you've got to deal with similar pages again and again, just like /History, /Info, and so on, subpages working scheme means to be the best way in order to get accurate searches. For instance, if I search Perú, I´ll get Perú subpages containing History, Info, Facts, etc., which is not only practical but faster and accurate. The mexican example is just to show how we can mismatch pages like Historia Virreinal or Prehispánica if proper links aren't used. I´m only quoting you as a well-experienced user and your working way as a one way to be some kind of reference to us, I hope this don't bother you. I´ve seen susning.nu and Swedish Wikipedia and I really like the way both projects are being carried, I´m only trying to search, to find and to show our wikipedians the best guidelines; and I'm also making an attempt Spanish wikipedians to feel they've got feedback from international members, that's the reason why I post on Announcements my mailing list writings. I´m only trying newcomers not to feel working alone and lost. Our Wikipedia IRC channel and our forum are working in the same way. Once a newcomer has entered the wikipedia pages and contributed somehow, the worst thing that may happens is to loose their contributions due to a lack of feedback.

I deeply appreciate your efforts and your help, when I talk about a nonsense about correcting subpages scheme or not, I´m referring to wikipedians, not you. I mean, they are working hard in wikipedia and the worst I can do is keeping on bothering them all the time with silly (to them) details. They won't be bold if I do so. The best way is to leave them at their own once they've understood the basics (IMHO).

You are welcome anytime to discuss our policies and guidelines, of course, and I ask you please to do so. It's the best way to improve our approaches, keeping in mind you're a lucky one, you are able to understand what we are doing.

I agree with you, somebody has to mediate between Larry's & Jimmy's policies and foreign users (or non-english users). Actually, the International Wikipedia Project should be paid more attention; even English language is widely known as "the Internet language", I´ve noticed wikipedia contributors place themselves into a niche (the way it should be), working on topics in their own language, and the project frame is completely forgotten. A contributor can't be submitted all the time to English Wikipedia for announcements and releases, I mean, despite being the first and the "original" one, English Wikipedia should be referred in future for its contents, just like Swedish or Spanish or another one.

And if some users don't care about reading the English guidelines, I guess other users simply can't. English is becoming a standard, but it's far away to be "The standard". Many european companies still keep German or French like corporate languages, some Eastern Europe countries are still in German as a second language tradition, and concerning to Spanish-speakers, Latin-America English-speakers are set to a low population percentage.

Thanks a lot indeed, Lars, for your ideas and comments."

Edgar

22 de Enero de 2002. Sobre un correo de Lars Aronsson

Por tratarse de una secuela originada por su primer correo, transcribo los textos a continuación:

Texto original:

From: "Lars Aronsson" <lars@aronsson.se> To: "Edgar Enyedy" <edgar@ya.com> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [Intlwiki-l] Spanish Wikipedia and translation projects

> Hi Edgar, > > > The contributors are mainly from Spain (we've got also > > contributions from the States, Andorra and Colombia). > > Thanks for the information! I had a look at the Spanish Wikipedia, > and found that some information about Peru (e.g. "Informacion > general") was not on subpages, so I moved them where they should be > (Cambios Recientes, January 14, signature LA2). > > I don't speak Spanish, but I understand a few words like "Informacion" > when I see them.  :-) > > > -- > Lars Aronsson (lars@aronsson.se) > Aronsson Datateknik > Teknikringen 1e, SE-583 30 Linköping, Sweden > tel +46-70-7891609 > http://aronsson.se/ http://elektrosmog.nu/ http://susning.nu/

• Respuesta:

Hi Lars,

Sorry, I couldn't reply your mail on time.

I noticed you've changed the info order about Peru, thanks a lot. I've made a proposal to follow your subpages scheme on countries, but it seems the non-formal wikipedian spirit is spreading all over Spanish wikipedia, and I'm really happy it happens. As you were told by me in my former e-mail,we've met the challenge: wikipedians from other Spanish speaking countries are willing to colaborate, and they are also involved in creating, in such way, their own editing rules, their own schemes, their topics and to "administrate", in the light sense of this term, the topics that underlie beneath and underneath their country name, and they ought to be free to develop their ideas.

I consider Spanish wikipedia as the start line in a long way towards individuals wikipedias as long as they may have its own origin on the Spanish one, at first, I believe they need our structure and to be sheltered and helped by us, we should act as guidelining and introductory "godfathers". From then on, they may develop their own rules, FAQs, policies, guidelines, conventions, etc. My bet is Spanish wikipedia should be the binding one, regarding Spanish as agglutinative language, but not limitative. I'm aware my bet is a risky one, but, sincerely, I guess it's the best one on Wikipedia free based spirit on collaboration and mutual help.

The least remarkable point is if they are independent wikipedias on their own or attached to Spanish wikipedia as a binding one.

For instance, Mexican people have started working on their country pages. A really interesting approach, and decided not to use sub-pages, wiki links instead. As sub-pages seems soon to be removed from wiki software, it's a nonsense to follow those guidelines. I'm sure we'll finally manage to focus our attention on editing policies and reach terms of agreement and understanding. If we fill up (and feed up) our policies pages at first, people won't be bold. Maybe the best way to interact is proposing a few guidelines on wiki, capital case, article contents and to discuss our editing policies as we grow and discover the mismatches and errors.

If we all take part when finding out our errors and discuss, mend and suggest, we'll be working in a really collaborative effort, not just importing the basics from the English wikipedia.

All of this above is not to be considered as repeating the first steps of English Wikipedia, neither an attempt to build a "new one", nor we're going to find out the secret of a foreign wikipedia success.

It's just the idea we want to build our Wikipedia from the ground floor, growing as our contributors do, open-minded and open-mindedness of approach from every wikipedia.

We are not only "educating" this creature, but also "creating" it. (Any Frankestein resemblance is unintentional ;-))

Thanks a lot indeed

Cheers

Edgar (Spanish Wikipedia)

19 de Enero de 2002. Wikipedia en español estrena foro

Ha quedado abierto el foro de wikipedistas en español. Este foro no necesita registro ni está moderado.

• La dirección es http://www.tesisdoctoral.org/phpBB/

No estaría de mas revisarlo de vez en cuando y proponer temas nuevos. Es una buena manera de no sobrecargar las páginas personales de wikipedia.

10 de Enero de 2002. Wikipedia en español estrena chat

Hoy hemos estrenado nuestro propio chat en español. En los próximos días se pondrá en funcionamiento el Foro.

9 de Enero de 2002. Wikipedia en español y las traducciones

Como respuesta a un mensaje en la lista de correos que considera a las Wikipedias internacionales como "traducciones" del original inglés, anexo la parte relevante del mensaje original y mi respuesta a éste.

Texto original:

Note that the French, Spanish, Italian, and Portuguese translations are not links to these Wikipedias, because I consider them too small yet. Once they reach 1000 articles, they will get the same treatment.

 Lars Aronsson (lars@aronsson.se)
 

Respuesta:

The Spanish Wikipedia is not a "translation" in any form. We are not contributing to a "translation project" in any way. Sometimes we develop an article wikipedia-based, but our work shouldn?t be regarded just as translating. I disagree with the above, and if you ask any active wikipedian from international editions you?ll get the same answer as you?re reading now.

International Wikipedias ought to be regarded and considered just as what they are, "editions" or "versions" from the English one, not "translations" as you state on your mail.

On the other hand, if your "Wikipedia club" is as small as you say, following your own rules when becoming a member, and you don?t care about quality vs. quantity on articles, you may ask yourself if we don't feel like Groucho Marx about "clubs"...

Edgar

Spanish Wikipedia

7 de Enero de 2002. Polémica con Wikipedia - Polonia

Voy a intentar dar una reseña del asunto, pero no voy a traducir toda la lista de correo porque sería una labor improductiva, máxime teniendo en cuenta que no nos afecta directamente a Wikipedia en español.

En este día la Wikipedia de Polonia ha experimentado un aumento de 90 artículos nuevos y 182 ediciones de texto, situándose en un total de 720 páginas "coma" y por encima del millar total, lo cual es un volumen considerable (todos lo sabemos ;-)).

La polémica surje porque esta Wikipedia no está alojada en el servidor de Wikipedia, y su retraso en "mudarse" al mismo podría ocasionar la pérdida del nombre "Wikipedia" ya que desde este servidor (Larry Sanger y cia.) esta actitud es vista como un beneficio derivado del apropiamiento del nombre sin estar alojados en el mencionado servidor central. La discusión luego deriva en pormenores como quién beneficia y redirecciona a quién, la posibilidad de una contraseña de administrador en caso de mudanza, los pros del servidor en Polonia, algunos enlaces (donde nos mencionan como una Wikipedia demasiado pequeña hasta que tengamos 1000 artículos), etc.

2 de Enero de 2002. Recuento de Final de Año

El recuento de páginas de las diferentes wikipedias de habla no-inglesa, a fecha 1 de enero de 2002 es el siguiente:

• Alemán (Deutsch) - 2095
• Polaco (Polska) - 895
• Español (Castellano) - 600
• Neerlandés (Nederlands) - 486
• Portugués (Português) - 351
• Esperanto - 342
• Sueco (Svenska) - 177
• Francés (Français) - 129
• Catalán (Català) - 68
• Italiano (Italiano) - 25
• Inglés Simplificado - 13
• Vasco (Euskara) - 12
• Ruso (Russkiy) - 11
• Chino (Hanyu) - 7
• Árabe (Araby) - 4
• Japonés (Nihongo) - 4
• Húngaro (Magyar) - 2
• Danés (Dansk) - 1
• Hebreo (Ivrit) - 1

Somos la tercera wikipedia en cantidad de páginas, aunque es un recuento "null", sin distinguir artículos "coma". Ver Discusión en la Página de Inicio (Homepage).

Ojalá que mediante el esfuerzo de todos sigamos creciendo y escalando posiciones.

Feliz Año 2002.

Edgar

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